Girl dies: Parents prayed instead of allowing medical treatment

Mikey 80 comments
Girl dies: Parents prayed instead of allowing medical treatment

The moronic parents of 11 year old Madeline Kara Neumann prayed for a miracle to cure her of a treatable form a diabetes. Madeline's conditioned worsened, becoming sicker and sicker, until she died.

Police Chief Dan Vergin said

"an autopsy determined the girl died from diabetic ketoacidosis, an ailment that left her with too little insulin in her body, and she had probably been ill for about 30 days, suffering symptoms like nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness."

The parents, still ignorant, say she died because they "did not have enough faith". Her death is still being investigated.

Am I right in saying they weren't fit to be parents? I almost pity them. That level of ignorance can only come from being indoctrinated into a way of thinking consistent with their own ignorant parents.


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Thursday 27th March 2008 | 07:09 PM

Tough call, isn't it? I mean sure, they sucked as parents but what's the legal angle on this one? Anyone know?

As you say, they were ignorant. However, ignorance is no defence, in the eyes of the law (at least here in Australia), so I imagine they will be in for some jail time in the near future. Or maybe not - I guess their *intentions* were honourable, so maybe it'll be a suspended sentence?

Then again, it's America, so they could get 'the chair'?

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B Man

Friday 28th March 2008 | 12:21 AM

This is pure negligence, the parents should suffer because of this. The parents being moronic is an understatement, and it is definitely far more 'sinful' to know the problem but yet choose to ignore it, and then blame faith. What hypocracy and ignorance is this.

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Friday 28th March 2008 | 12:36 AM response to this comment by B Man. Indeed, if they wanted to get that religious about it then just consider the invention of modern medicine as divine intervention.

I've never understood why someone could take religious text so literally as to deny their self or their family the benefits of modern technology. But then again, I don't understand how people can take a religious text so literally that they commit murder over it either.

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Friday 28th March 2008 | 07:48 AM response to this comment by Rodney. Rodney, there is absolutely no way that this can be construed as 'honorable', they were neglegent to the point that their daughter died of a treatable condition.

Medical science has advanced to the degree that many diseases, both chronic and accute can be treated and also cured. Even a god fearing retard like these parents can appreciate and put it into a favorable or supportive light. If a piece of trash collection of stories can be written by miscellaneous people almost 2000 years ago and be called devinely inspired, how can the advances in medical science not be referred to in the same light to the god fearing person.

Instead of being the victim and sheltering yourself from the world, embrace it, we're never going back.

I certainly hope that at the very least, that these people are never allowed to conceive a child ever again. Their actions are comeplete vile and abhorent.

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Friday 28th March 2008 | 08:23 AM response to this comment by Jake. "I certainly hope that at the very least, that these people are never allowed to conceive a child ever again. Their actions are comeplete vile and abhorent."

100% agree.

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Thursday 3rd April 2008 | 05:42 PM

I`m suprised they conceived in the first place.
Personally I think they should punished severely for what they did. The sad thing is they probably still think that praying (to something that doesn`t exist) was still the correct thing to do - even after killing their child (which they did)
This basically comes down to child abuse.

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john doe

Saturday 10th May 2008 | 10:45 PM

i hope the parents are forcibly neutered. they are to dumb to breed.

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Saturday 10th May 2008 | 11:06 PM

are you surprised really? has anyone ever prayed for a miracle and one actually happened? that would make for an interesting story, this however is just dumb!

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Saturday 10th May 2008 | 11:20 PM

they should have tried praying to that noodle guy. he's cool maybe that would have worked :-P

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Varuka Salt

Saturday 10th May 2008 | 11:24 PM

These people should be tried for murder.

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William Moore (wherewillwhy)

Sunday 11th May 2008 | 12:25 AM

that poor little girl ! the only thing that comes to my mind is the little girls death serves as a out cry to the world that this thing GOD isn't real after all ?. what ever the case, people , the world need to open their eyes and realize alot of "the real "agendas" of the worlds super controllers! . Here watch this then look into it !

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B Gonzalez

Sunday 11th May 2008 | 12:45 AM

F Religion! Hell yeah! They're a bunch of idiots! Not like those New Age hippies that will let their kids die trying to cure them with crystal power, veganism, or meditation. That's all based on science!

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 12:48 AM

Okay so God chose to say no and that he wouldn't heal their little girl. Over and over God does heal people or intervene in situations. These parents were foolish but unfortunately there are some Christian denominations where things like blood transfusions and medical procedures are wrong. Please don't blame Christians as a whole or say there must not be a god because of a couple of misguided people.

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Law man ;)

Sunday 11th May 2008 | 12:54 AM order for treatment to take place...the ball is in the parents court...if they choose not to allow treatment...then that's their decision...there is no issue to do with law here.

They didn't kill her...they just didn't say yes to treatment due to their lack of intelligence and faith...within the medical system.

One must pose the question...did God, if there is one, give his power to heal to doctors, so that they may continue his good work?

But as for legallity...they have done nothing wrong....they're just stupid. =]

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 01:40 AM

What I wonder is if the girl that died agreed with what they are doing. If she did not then it is horrible torture. I cannot imagine how that would feel - pleading to your parents that you want help but they do not give permission.

However, if the girl agreed with what the parents were doing then screw less problem.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 01:45 AM

The state had a right to intervene; it did not. Where was child protective services? When gods don't work (they have a bad track record), then "lesser" beings should take over. The parents, the state, the courts failed.

As for you xians out there, read 1Cor1 and you'll see the anti-science and anti-intellectual roots of your public (mental) health pandemic. Faith-based public delusions make America sick.


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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 02:20 AM

This is just another example of how ridiculous religion is. It's one thing to be spiritual, and believe that a higher power plays a role in the every day actions of humanity, but it's another to adhere to an outline or guidelines, written by flawed humans.

Don't they/you see that the bible, or any other religious text was written by common men like you and me? Those who wrote the bible/koran/etc. were no closer to god than you or I are right now.

Too many people are "sheeple." Religion is a farce, and it's the reason that little girl died.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 02:37 AM

Unfortunately, there are times when a child needs to be protected from their own parents. This was one of those times. These people are brainwashed by misinterpretation of scripture. They are no different from any dangerous cult. When an adult chooses to not have medical treatment, that is their right and privilege, but not so a child. Whoever stood by and allowed this child to die, because her parents refused to avail themselves of the technology and science that God has enlightened men to use for healing, then in my opinion they are every bit as guilty as the parents. Court orders can be obtained by doctors, relatives, or even a neighbor to stop this kind of abuse and murder. Someone should have been screaming at the top of their lungs to anyone who would listen to save this child's life. I pray with all my heart that she was an only child.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 02:53 AM

Separate church from state, and in this case the parents should be charged with 2nd degree Murder, as they murdered their daughter.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 03:47 AM response to this comment by CT. Which religious text are you talking about? In the Bible doctors are called for and doctors are called. Paul brought his own doctor with him - his name was Luke. In Genesis God told Adam that he would eat the herbs of the field - indicating that he was going to be sick. God never promised no disease - He said that there would be disease and he even gave procedures for it in Books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Why are people so ignorant of what the Bible says?
These people are just guilty of watching too much Christian TV and being simple. It's usually the woman that controls the family in these cases - I've seen it before but I can't really mention that God told the women to listen to the men and not vica versa.

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xylocopa, resurrected

Sunday 11th May 2008 | 03:50 AM

After heart disease and cancer, the biggest killer in this country is the medical profession.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 06:39 AM

Have you ever thought that God wanted her to be in his home? Jeeze people, give the man some slack. Her parents knew she was going to die, and would be in a better place. It wasn't neglect, it was good parenting.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 06:42 AM response to this comment by Matt. Good parenting will never involve allowing your child to die when it could be prevented. To say God wanted her home is a sick justification.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 06:51 AM response to this comment by xylocopa, resurrected. Alright, so the girl could have just died instead of going to the hospital and being easily saved? Oh, wait.

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Mari Lynn J

Sunday 11th May 2008 | 06:56 AM response to this comment by Matt. "Have you ever thought that God wanted her to be in his home?"

That's a pretty big gamble considering you don't even know if God exists. Even the most religious in the world have no proof. These parents are sadly probably the product of patents just like them. Proof that blind faith is plain dumb.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 07:05 AM

This is probably one of the only list of comments on the internet where almost everyone agrees
on the original text. good show!
Anyway, in my opinion these parents are not alone in being so stupidly religious.
I have met many people who pray when they get any bit sick instead of simply
taking meds or finding their allergies so they can prevent becoming sick.
But those are usually the religious nuts who think that religion is a thing
that should be forced on everyone else.
If I was one of the doctors I would have slapped each parent...back handed. Then
ask them WTF are they thinking.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 07:10 AM

I will never understand this way of thinking - if she broke her leg was their god going to miraculously cure that?
They are 2 truly EVIL people that should be made to feel the pain their child suffered whilst she was dying.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 07:42 AM

Let people live and die as they wish. If it wasn't for the internet, would you care?

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 08:25 AM response to this comment by Bothered. So the girl wished to die? And - yes, I would care!
If it wasn`t for the internet people like these 2 bastards wouldn`t get the hate they deserve and hopefully it may prevent another innocent child being murdered in the name of a god.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 09:39 AM

A tragedy like this is so incredibly sad to read about. That poor girl had a whole happy live ahead of her, but she was denied it because her parents are insane. This is parental negligence, pure and simple. Denying their daughter medical care is no different than denying her food or water. Her parents are are fully responsible for the death of their daughter, through ignorance and stupidity.

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fairliedaft and jbbrowneyed

Sunday 11th May 2008 | 09:46 AM

religion is a terrible thing. it was invented thousands of years ago to control people using fear. do what we say or end up in hell, follow orders and end up in heaven. and it's just a shame people have not learned from the past. there are far too many religions for them all to be correct, so my only theory is they are all wrong. now i may be wrong, but i think i make more sense than the people who believe in some higher being who controls everything.
i mean when a kid says they are talkin to an imaginary friend, parents try to get them sorted out, but when the parents say they were contacted by god himself, people think they are somethin special instead of carting them off to the funny farm.
i just want to point out i have nothin against people who have beliefs in god or anything else, this is just my opinion. well, that is until they let religion kill someone, then i have a lot against religious people.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 10:15 AM

"Indeed, if they wanted to get that religious about it then just consider the invention of modern medicine as divine intervention."

Bingo, their prays had already been answered, as we already have a cure for this. They were just so stupid that they could not see the forest for the trees.

I hope they do time for this.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 11:32 AM

I remember studying a similar case at law school, the parents refused their child to be treated on religious grounds. Cant remember the outcome, but their action was condemned by everyone, including the leaders of the cult that they were involved in.

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Blake M

Sunday 11th May 2008 | 11:50 AM

this is coming from fox news people. It was probably a fruit fly that died, and not a human.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 12:19 PM

wow that is horrible. having your daughter with a treatable disease and then not allowing her to take medication? I'm a Christian too but this totally disgusts me. If they want to take the Bible so literally well there's a lot in there about common sense, and common sense here would be to take the girl to friggin' hospital!

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 01:44 PM response to this comment by Law man ;). The fault lies with the state (or other jurisdictional power) and any physician involved if they knew of the circumstances and didn't remove the child from the parent's custody. We don't keep children in homes where they are battered, even if battering is part of one's religion. One could say that the parents and their Pastor, preacher, spiritual guide were guilty of conspiracy to inflict harm upon a minor and put to rest the chance of a repeat performance from several wackos at one time. Listening to several "fundamentalist" preachers on the web (interest spawned by the current election debacle) I am amazed at what passes as "mainstream". Darwin evidently had it backwards.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 01:55 PM response to this comment by Joe. Joe- I have seen what you alluded to also. The woman walks into the church with her nose high in the air and her family follows slump shouldered and morosely beaten down. I have also seen the reverse where the man is overbearing and uses religion to justify his supreme authority. The whole idea of "Chosen people" and being elevated closer to God attracts these psychopathic personalities and the pews are full of them every Sunday (or Saturday). I am religious but shun religions because of the greater temptations of the soul available in church.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 02:16 PM

Man's superior intellect drove him to choose curiosity (tree of knowledge) over his base instincts. For that, we have society, science, and evolution of the mind as well as of the body. These are no less gifts from God than is divine healing. Once the choice was made, the road can't be walked in reverse to find the state of communication that would allow such beseechings. Had we not chosen the road that we did the death wouldn't have been any different, but our view of it would have been passive and accepting. The child, the parents, and society are victims of a mindset that continually drives man backward in an attempt to gain a reality that is no longer possible. Man's impetus must remain forward on the path that he chose as the reverse is gated. It is a circular staircase, so that one day we can find our origins in the Divine Creator, but on a much different level than was possible by not taking the path to begin with. If the sciences aren't embraced then we will lose them as one loses muscle tissue from atrophy and we will be caught in the middle of our path with no forward or reverse possible.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 02:55 PM response to this comment by Law man ;). You obviously need a new moniker. In the US, where this happened, the US Supreme Court has ruled that parents are not allowed to deny their minor children life-saving medical treatments on religious grounds. This falls under the category of criminally negligent homicide, which in most states is (unfortunately) only a misdemeanor charge.

Unfortunately, although the state had a legal right to intervene, to do so would require first that they be made aware of the situation, which, let's face it, the parents are going to be less than inclined to do. By the time the state was made aware of the situation, it was too late. To blame the state for this is ludicrous; blame lands squarely on the parents.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 03:10 PM

Let's look at this case very closely. Based on the articles I've seen on this case, the following are the significant facts:

1. Madeline had been getting progressively sicker of the course of at least 3 weeks.
2. Multiple people expressed concern for her health, including her grandmother who called the police hours before she died.
3. Her parents KNEW she was extremely ill. Hours before she died, her father put out a mass e-mail to friends and family, calling for emergency prayer because Madeline had become unable to even move.
4. The illness in question - ketoacidosis - is caused by low insulin levels. Without insulin, the body cannot metabolize sugar, which builds up in the blood stream, becoming increasingly acidic. Patients suffering from ketoacidosis smell fairly strongly like paint thinner, due to the ketones building up in the blood stream.
5. All EMTs, paramedics, nurses, and doctors, as well as most first responders, police, and fire fighters are trained to recognize and treat diabetic emergencies. Even at the latest stages of the emergency, patients respond well to treatment.

These parents KILLED their daughter, just as if they had put a gun to her head. Even if we can presume that they couldn't not recognize ketoacidosis, we know that if they had expressed ANY concern for her well being to ANYONE with virtually ANY medical background, she would be alive today. But, even if we excuse this fact, we know that other members of her family attempted to intervene on her behalf, only to be rebuffed by her parents.

If you want to test the power of prayer, do it with your own life.

These parents should be slowly poisoned to death.

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Sunday 11th May 2008 | 04:52 PM

This reminds me of a story.

It's raining really hard and a town is about to be flooded. A man prays for god to save him when a car pulls in front of him and the driver asks the man to to jump in. The man declines stating "Don't worry, God will save me", and the car drives away.

The man continues to pray as the water level increases and soon a boat approaches him. The boat owner asks him to climb in, but the man declines yet again stating "Don't worry, God will save me", and so the boat travels past him.

The man continues his prayer and soon the water level increases so high, that he has to climb on a roof a building when a helicopter comes bear. A rescuer asks the man to hop in, but even still he declines with the words "Don't worry, God will save me", and so the helicopter flies away.

The water levels continue to tries as the man prays, but unfortunately he ultimately drowns and goes to heaven. There he asks god "Why didn't you save me from the flood?" to which the god replies "I tried! I sent you a car, a boat and a helicopter."

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Monday 12th May 2008 | 03:18 AM

There are many crimes committed in this world which I can rationalize to the point of understanding why it was committed. Negligence and murder of this magnitude I cannot.

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Monday 12th May 2008 | 07:47 AM

At least they took themselves out of the gene pool.
Poor kid

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Monday 12th May 2008 | 07:55 AM response to this comment by Layton. I forgot about that joke. Nice 1!

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Monday 12th May 2008 | 09:08 AM response to this comment by Matt. Diabetes is not fatal, you fool. I have a niece who developed diabetes at age 8. She has been on meds and watching her diet since then. She is a healthy, happy, 32 year old mother today.

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Monday 12th May 2008 | 09:09 AM response to this comment by Bothered. This child wasn't allowed to live as she wished. She was forced to die by her parents choice.

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Mallory Stone

Monday 12th May 2008 | 10:02 AM response to this comment by Law man ;). Are you nuts? This is a clear case of negligent homicide.

The parents do have the right to refuse to consent for specific treatments on religious grounds, but they also have a legal obligation to have the child examined by a doctor, and have the treatment options explained. Then, when the parents turn out to be twits, the hospital can take them to court, and the court can over-rule the parents and mandate treatment.

You must be from the USA. There must be intelligent, sane Americans out there somewhere, but we only seem to hear about the freaking nutjobs.

These are the type of people who give Christians a bad name.

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Monday 12th May 2008 | 11:18 AM

pretty common occurence among christian scientists.

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Monday 12th May 2008 | 11:56 AM

I'm guessing they were Christian Scientists. I work with one who let his daughter die....apparently they don't believe in medicine.

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Monday 12th May 2008 | 12:54 PM response to this comment by Law man ;). Incorrect, an individual has the right to refuse treatment for themselves only. A parent has rights to refuse treatment for their child in only a very limited way, usually when it involves children born with extreme defect and even with treatment the likely hood of survival is minimal, or would cause the child to live with extreme pain E.G. harlequin syndrome.

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Monday 12th May 2008 | 02:13 PM

"Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? If a brother or a sister is in a naked state and lacking the food sufficient for the day, yet a certain one of you says to them 'Go in peace, keep warm and well fed,' but you do not give them the necessities for their body, of what benefit is it? Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself." -- James 2:14-17

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Monday 12th May 2008 | 08:58 PM

Only a dumbass would do that to their child

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Eyes wide OPEN

Monday 12th May 2008 | 11:50 PM response to this comment by Matt. They didnt KNOW she was going to die. They couldn't have known that because it was a treatable condition!
The parents made a concious choice of prayer over medicine. There are millions probably billions of examples of the application of medicine saving lives, whereas there are are NO cases of prayer saving someones life (at least none with any kind of evidence). In my opinion this makes the parents guilty of negligent manslaughter (That's what it's called in the UK, in the USA maybe its 2nd or 3rd degree murder, i'm not sure)

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 12:50 AM

In January this year I fell ill. It was ketoacidosis brought on by type 1 diabetes. I had been under the weather for 3 or 4 weeks, but because it was the middle of winter, everyone thought it was a bug. Then one day I woke up and felt awful, I woke my parents up and they rushed me to a clinic, which had called an ambulance before I arrived. Even though I was being treated on the way to the hospital I slipped into a coma. I spent 5 days in hospital and came out feeling pretty bad (but much better than before I went in :P). Now, only 4 months later, I'm feeling better than I EVER did (new diet and that :D). I was never a believer, but if there is any sort of God, he was acting through the medical PROFESSIONALS.

Sadly, there is no cure for diabetes, although it is relatively easy to manage when treated with insulin injections. I have a friend (also a type 1 diabetic) who is a strong believer, he has never believed for a moment that God will cure him, he knows he needs treatment.

Another friend of mine invited me to a church to try and "heal" me. I think they would just as likely kill me รก la Madeline.

There may someday be a cure (stem cell research, fingers crossed) but God will not miraculously cure someone.

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 01:13 AM

This is truly a sad thing, surely for the parents as they were not trying to kill their daughter. They were praying for her to get better because they Loved her. Sadly the rejection of medical and scientific treatment is becoming more popular as people take sides in the Evolution vs Creation debate. What religious people need to learn is that what the pastor says isnt always right and that science is not and NEVER claimed to be a religion. I was raised in a christian home where prayer was the common remedy for most things. My parents dont really care for the medical industry nor do I but when i broke my leg, a trip to the hospital was needed at least for an x-ray. Being just a crack, a home-made cast and some prayer was fine. As adults its our job to decide when we just dont know enough to make the call. As for these parents, Im sure their loss will haunt them and open their eyes a bit. But as a parent myself I agree that the choice they made was wrong and if the state can get involved if i spank my kids...there should be some action taken here.

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 03:33 AM

I find it amazing that ANYONE could put their religion before their children.

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theresa mcbryan

Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 04:48 AM

It's so sad when people don't see that God has already answered their prayers by creating and nurturing a world where people have learned to treat these kind of health issues. Guess that was just not good enough for these parents, they had to have a personal miracle delivered to order. What pride. A friend of mine died recently, for the same sort of reason. She looked to homeopathy to cure her until it was to late for the allopathic treatment that probably would have worked.

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 04:53 AM

If you talk to God, it's Prayer.

If God talks to you, it's Schizophrenia.

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Joe Takkle

Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 04:54 AM

Remember, everything is part of God's infallible plan. If its part of his plan that you die because your parents were morons, then that was your role. If you have an abortion, it was God's plan for the baby to be aborted.

It was also God's plan for me to write this, so don't bitch about my comments.

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 05:17 AM response to this comment by Law man ;). Actually, it is against the law.

Law contains such clause, as death by negligence. Namely, if a person neglects to perform an action which is clearly and obviously necessary to preserve someone else`s life, that person must be tried for manslaughter.

The actual depth of guilt is ultimately decided by jury, which must take in account all the circumstances, including the awareness and physical ability of persons involved to render help.

In such case, however, this is a clear-cut case of murder. Parents WERE informed about a necessity for the cure, and they were physically capable of procuring and administering it in time.

Frankly, in such a case, parents would be most likely sentenced to involuntary committment in mental health institution.

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 05:31 AM

I have a friend who's mom was like this (she divorced.) Everytime he was vomiting excessively or anything very serious she just left him at home. As a kid it made me wonder why...

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 07:20 AM

they will probably pray to not get the chair instead of getting a lawyer, that chair would serve them well, and perhaps the rest of this moronic country should sit on it as well

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John L.

Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 07:21 AM response to this comment by xylocopa, resurrected. Unfortunately you choose to forget that the worlds biggest killer is religion. Always has been and always will be. Take religion out of the world and there wouldn't be any wars and you wouldn't get idiotic parents killing their children praying for something that will never happen. There has never been any proof that any God has ever done anything including existing in the first place !
People who rely on religion are sad people who cannot accept reality and not much different to drug takers who try to escape reality. Get a grip of yourselves and open your eyes. There is no God. Nobody has ever met one, seen one or even know one. They don't exist. They are something you imagine when you cannot handle real life. And as they don't exist, they are never going to be able to help you no matter how hard you pray.

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 08:35 AM

Obviously, they prayed to the wrong God;
Or he's having trouble hearing (he is quite old after all);
Or he had other plans for her: in which case, what's the use of praying? If God wants your child to live, no need to pray; if he wants your child to die, no point in praying; if he doesn't know what he wants, that means he has no plan, he doesn't know what he's doing, so screw him;
Or there is no God, the most likely outcome (at least no all knowing, all capable, all loving God).

So, for all this "faith", what do we have? The parents are suffering the loss of their child (even moronic zealots hurt); the child suffered a whole lot; and the rest of us suffer thinking this innocent child's death and suffering could have easily been avoided. That's the joy of religion for you: bringing avoidable suffering to all. Go ahead, spread the good news...

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Some dude

Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 08:36 AM

Pity isn't the emotion that comes to mind when I read about people who allow their religious beliefs to cause MASS detriment to others. Rage, and the action of rage, are what comes to mind.

Faith is the weakest of human emotions, the most disabling, as it's purpose in existence is to negate critical thinking, if the parents had thought critically they would have realized that they're being fools, duped by faith.

I say we feed them to the lions.

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 09:36 AM

relax everyone...survival of the fitest at it's best.

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That Guy from the Internet

Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 09:54 AM

Heh, at least their genes are out of the pool now.

This has strengthened my belief in God. Just think, he loves us so much that he is willing to destroy those genes that ruin our society with idiocy. Go God!

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don't got one

Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 10:04 AM

First: back off. Tolerance, amigo. Tolerance. Some people value ethics that don't comply with a society that has placed it's entire faith in western medicine.
Second: apparently, you have some bias towards religion and prayer as a solution to physical ailments. Personally, i agree, but if you want someone to respect your faith in western medicine, then you have to respect theirs, being a faith in God. Yes, some would consider it unethical to not proceed with treatment, and it goes against the principles of Bioethics, but there's more to saving a life than dry logic.
Third: it's people like you who broaden the gap between science and religion and only worsen the conflict. The shift from mythos to logos has indeed left the world with a nasty taste in its mouth, and certainly formed sides, but there are ways to fix that. Egging on the other "side" is only going to make what you find so appalling (this specific case of Madeline Neumann) happen more often and with more zeal.
I definitely support a medical treatment for cases like this, but the bias you have supplied in your entry is beyond the appropriate amount when relaying the story.

-someone who might know what they're talking about

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Liberty Tree

Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 10:43 AM

This isn't a religion's about where the power of the Govt/State begins and ends.

So it's ultimately an issue of individual rights.

What trumps?

The right of the parent to decide what they think is best for the child ; or the right of the child as interpreted by the state?

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 01:11 PM response to this comment by don't got one. You're an idiot "don't got one", tollerance for an annoying dog that barks late at night, these people murdered their child. There is no tollerance for what they did.

What these people did was criminally neglegant. Their daughter died of an easily treatable condition.

While they did not kill her, they did something equally abhorrent, they let her die.

There is no tollerance for people like this, they diserve every bit of the shame they bring on themselves.

If they want to cure themselves of a cold with prayer, go for it, but this was a girl who had been indoctrinated into believing that this sort of prayer is more powerful than medecine. Her parents deserve nothing less than the charge of premeditated murder.

This is no better than a jahovas whitness refusing their child a life saving blood transfusion.

If it proves one vital FACT it is this, prayer is useless and is nothing less than dangerous.

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 02:29 PM response to this comment by Faithful. Bring back the lions. I am so sick of having to respect these morons "beliefs", isn't it time we were allowed to ridicule these delusional retards and prevent them from tainting the future with idiotic hocus pocus from the distant past? Come on! They're talking to invisible men and obeying voices from burning bushes! Idiots.

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 03:13 PM

i'm glad this is happening, let all the christian freaks keep this up, at least it will reduce the population explosion, and especialy it will assist with killing off the dumb.

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 03:36 PM

Bet they get a Jewish lawyer?

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 08:58 PM

Having read (with some amusement I might add) that the word Christians and believers of faith/god came up a few times as an excuse of religion gone mad, however, I only know of one religion that refuses medical help (even if they have been stabbed, shot, run over by a car or for any reason where going to hospital for any reason), that religion and their recruits are called Jehovah Witnesses, I'm not sure whether they are just based in England or if they are a widespread disease but they are the biggest bunch of idiots alive (religious or not), they turn up on your doorstep preaching at you (no other religion I know does this) they interpret their bible to suit their own needs, they refuse to acknowledge Christmas/Easter/Birthdays (but that could be because they usually have extended families and can't afford it). I could go on about this wannabe religion but I am at work and my boss is now giving me evils (I think he may be a Jehovah too).

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Tuesday 13th May 2008 | 09:33 PM

I forgot to mention that this couple managed to kill just one person, there are more dangerous religions out there that condone the killing/murder of thousands, we all know who they are. Religion is the biggest killer known to man and yet we still allow religion to carry on, if religion were a club or a sport it would have been disbanded years ago, I still think that Jehovahs are idiots but maybe not the biggest ones.

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Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:59 PM

Another argument for parental screening.

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Tuesday 3rd June 2008 | 12:39 AM

You know how the saying goes. God only helps those who help themselves. In which this case God could have sent a doctor to help cure the childs illness. Gods help comes in so many forms and in so many ways. Miricales isn't just him coming down from a cloud or sending a angel to help. Its just the cure its self and the child getting the help she needed in a doctors office or hospital thats the miricale an every day miricale that god brings to us. Or if you get shot in the head and survive is a mirical too. But this is a case of child neglagence not spiritual guidence.

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Gina Squitieri

Sunday 2nd August 2009 | 11:26 AM


Excerpt from article:

Dale Neumann, 47, was convicted in the March 23, 2008, death of his daughter, Madeline, from undiagnosed diabetes. Prosecutors contended he should have rushed the girl to a hospital because she couldn't walk, talk, eat or drink. Instead, Madeline died on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone called 911 when she stopped breathing.

Sitting straight in his chair, Neumann stared at the jury as the verdict in a nearly empty courtroom was read. He declined comment as he left the courthouse.

Defense attorney Jay Kronenwetter said the verdict would be appealed. He declined further comment.

Prosecutors also declined comment, citing a gag order.

Leilani Neumann, 41, was convicted on the same charge in the spring. Marathon County Circuit Judge Vincent Howard set Oct. 6 for sentencing for both parents, who face up to 25 years in prison.



Sunday 2nd August 2009 | 07:52 PM
235 total kudos response to this comment by Gina Squitieri. Awesome. Though I doubt it will serve as a deterrent for other parents who think along the same moronic lines.

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Mother to a Diabetic Toddler

Friday 30th October 2009 | 07:28 PM

I am a parent of a type 1 diabetic and I have to say this absolutely discusts me. If a parent withhold food, or water, they would go to jail. It is no different, if the child doesn't produce their own insulin, they need to be given it, and to not do so is to sign a death sentence for them. Children with Type 1 Diabetes can lead completely normal childhoods once their diabetes is properly managed. My daughter would have died at 18months if it weren't for the miracles of science, as my mother puts it, who is very religious "if God didn't want us to use modern medications, then he wouldn't have let us invent them."

These are just idiots that should be wiped out of our gene pool now and get it done and over with. Anyone who doesn't bring their child to the doctor for the end stages of Type 1 Diabetes before diagnoses deserves to be trailed at least for manslaughter, as one your child is lethargic and passes out, not calling an ambulance or taking to the ER is like saying "I don't care if they die, I'll just ingore the problem by praying and then saying they were meant to die because of my own ingorance."

The worst of it is that, in the next ten years or so, a cure could easily be developed, they are in phase 2 trials of a cure at the Boston Hospital. So these parents could have treated their child until then. Instead, they chose to let her die. NOT God.

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