Idiocracy in all its glory
Mikey 60 comments
Yesterday I was involved in a conversation so mind boggling that your head might have exploded had you been listening in. I was trying to make arrangements to pay a fine, my first traffic violation in about 15 years.
For the benefit of people outside of Australia, driving while talking on a mobile phone is a pretty big deal here (and rightfully so), and I was dumb to do it especially considering I have a perfectly audible speaker phone.
I also learned the hard way that fines were doubled since Christmas, leaving me with an eventual $250 hole in my wallet.
Now $250 normally isn’t usually a lot of money, but as the sole income earner with 3 dependants (wife and 2 kids), and a hefty mortgage which got bigger since the recent interest rate rise, finding a spare $250 is no easy task. So I made my phone call to the Traffic Branch to arrange a way for me to pay off the fine incrementally, resulting in the hilarity paraphrased below.
Traffic: How may I help you?
Me: Hi I would like to make arrangements to pay off a $250 fine I received. I can pay half now and the other half next month. Can you help me make this arrangement?
Traffic: You have to pay the full amount within 28 days or you will be issued another fine, with an additional $12 fee.
Me: OK, so after 28 days the fine will be raised to $262? Couldn’t I just pay half now and the rest next month? It’s pretty tough these days with the economy 'n all.
Traffic: Yes the fine will be raised to $262 and we don’t enter into payment arrangements with traffic fines. I can’t comment on the economy.
Me: What’s the extra $12 for?
Traffic: It’s because we have to remind you to pay your fine.
Me: But you don't have to remind me. I just called you with an offer to sort this out.
Traffic: ....
Me: So when I receive this new reminder letter and I still can’t afford to pay the full amount in one hit, what happens then?
Traffic: Then after another 28 days we will send you another letter with an additional $60 on top of the original $250 and $12.
Me: So then I would be looking at a total fine of $322? Why is that extra fee $60 instead of $12 like before?
Traffic: It’s because we have to remind you once again to pay your fine.
Me: Haha seriously? I guess it costs more to send a second reminder with all that extra red ink you would be using. And what happens if I can’t afford to pay that $322 in one hit?
Traffic: Then we enter into an arrangement where you can pay back the fine incrementally.
Me: What?! You’re kidding? You said before that you don’t allow that?
Traffic: But by this stage we know you can't afford to pay the fine all at once so we offer a payment arrangement.
Me: But that is precisely why I'm calling now - to tell you I can't afford to pay it all in one hit and would like to enter a payment arrangement.
Traffic: ....
Me: So despite my willingness to pay this fine and my suggestion to start a payment plan now - which would be done and dusted after only 2 months - you will force me to wait for you to increase the fine twice over 2 months because of the “hassle” I caused you, and only at the end of the 3rd month allow me to enter into a payment arrangement, which will take another 2 months for me to pay it off? Is that about right?
Traffic: ....
Me: I guess I am just going to have to wait this thing through until you send me the option to make incremental payments.
Traffic: ....
Me: Can you see anything wrong with that system?
Traffic: Is there anything else I can help you with?
Me: No thank you. You’ve been a big help. Love your work.
I would like to think her occasional silence was the result of the sudden bemusement at the situation, but it’s more likely the script she reads from didn’t have any answers to questions.
It’s the equivalent of a poor tax. You can’t afford to pay in one hit, so they remind you of the fact 28 days later and increase the damage. Then another 28 days later you are once again reminded that you are poor, but this time they anally violate you with another larger fine increase. And 28 days after that they decide to give you the opportunity to pay the fine incrementally.
Anyway, in about 5 months I will be $322 poorer and a little wiser.
Update: I am compelled to clarify something here. I am not disputing the fine, I'm disputing the process required to pay the fine. Thanks to those who saw this article for what it is and came to my defence :-)
I love it. I would have lost my frickin mind and would have got the fine doubled some how.
Anders
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 03:13 PMTards! I kept reading for the part where you throw the phone though a window. Dunno how you kept your cool but good read.
mini-mel
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 03:17 PMat least you got your fine fast.. i got pinged at going over the limit by 5 clicks, and it took them 5 months to send me out a letter..
now thats good form ;)
...in response to this comment by mini-mel. Coincidentally 5 months is how long it will be before they finally get the money from me. But then, that's assuming I pay half each month. As I will have the option then, I might as well spread it out over as many months as I can so we don't feel the pinch as much. I may as well make them 'work' for the 'admin' fee I am getting slapped with :-)
Ben
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 03:48 PMIf they stop charging you a penalty once they have made arrangements, make only the minumum for as long as it takes. If you can make a minumum of $10 then do it. For putting you through that agravation they will have to wait for a total of 33 months for total payment, once you start paying. That will show 'em.
Joe
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 03:53 PMMaybe, and this this a big leap to take, I know, but they do it so that its INCONVENIENT for you. You broke the law. You admitted you broke the law. If its so damn difficult for you to pay the fine, maybe you shouldn't break the law. Especially when its so damn easy not to. You said it yourself, you have a perfectly good speaker phone.
Im willing to be you wont be wiser either. You will keep trucking on, and the next time this happens people will have to suffer through another inane blog about how you are getting screwed over.
Mopey
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 03:58 PMWhat a whinging bastard you are, just pay the fine. If you can afford a mobile phone and a car, you can afford a small fine.
Hacker
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 04:15 PMIn Victoria it is 3 demerit points and $143 (I`m pretty sure) I too have been caught talking on the phone whilst driving but the last time was 5 years ago and the penalty then was $125 and 1 demerit point.
We also have road safety cameras in Victoria which are primarily designed to raise revenue for the state government. If they were truly safety cameras wouldn`t they physically stop people from speeding?
My last safety camera fine was for doing 103kph in a 100kph zone, I tried aguing with the powers that be saying I had a good driving record. Hence to say it didn`t work and I had to pay $105 and lost a demerit point which I don`t get back for 3 years.
Getting into hypotheticals I have often wondered if a car was "snapped" whilst speeding and had an accident further down the road because of speeding could someone be sued for not stopping the car from speeding or dangerous driving?
The police can pull you up for speeding and even physically stop you from driving if you are driving in an erratic manor but a road safety camera can only take your picture - it doesn`t save your life or prevent an accident!
Good luck Mike and make the bastards wait!
Traffic
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 04:17 PMThat was me on the phone in the traffic office. Oh.god.how.we.laughed.
Hacker
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 04:27 PM...in response to this comment by Mopey. Can you not afford a car or a phone mopey?
I have a car and a mobile phone but then again I work.
Jim
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:09 PMI'm not sure how the Australian government works, then again I barely have a grasp of my own government anymore... But don't you have a parliament system that you could contact, or even the local news media?
It amazes me how the government doesn't like to get paid in a timely manner when they make more money off of you by forcing you to do it later. I had a similar situation with my student loans. I tried to pay them off, but they didn't want to take my money, they wanted the interest it could accrue.
...in response to this comment by Joe. Hi Joe,
Thanks for the criticism. I'm not complaining about being screwed over. I'm complaining about the convoluted inflexible system that makes it difficult.
Your comment: "If its so damn difficult for you to pay the fine, maybe you shouldn't break the law"
...suggests that I broke the law on purpose. For that, you are a tool. Have you ever gotten a speeding fine? Parking ticket? I bet they weren't on purpose. And as mentioned, it's my first offence in 15 years, and by anyone's standards that's pretty good going.
"the next time this happens people will have to suffer through another inane blog about how you are getting screwed over."
Wow - I guess I was expecting too much from you to realise early on what this blog post was about. I'm sorry you weren't clever enough to realise until the very end.
Thanks for stopping by though.
...in response to this comment by Traffic. Cute :-)
Jake
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:14 PMDidn't I read that you have an N95?
My N95 has a speaker on it...
That is crazy though man... though well done on the 15 year lag!
...in response to this comment by Mopey. Thanks Mopey! It's comments like yours that make the internet such a wonderful place!
"If you can afford a mobile phone and a car, you can afford a small fine."
It always amazes me how people just jump to such illogical conclusions when they don't know a thing about the financial status of the party involved. In any event, I have no qualms paying the fine. That's not even the issue.
Kim OJ
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:20 PMThat is funny, but I am a bit surprised to hear about an interest rate increase? Elsewhere they cut interest rates to stimulate the economy.
...in response to this comment by Jake. Yes I have the N95 and I was using the speaker phone, so talking on the phone was a dumb mistake. Although I wasn't holding it to my ear - I was just holding it in my hand. The cop said technically I shouldn't be driving with one hand.
Bob K
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:24 PM...in response to this comment by Kim OJ. All mortgage owners here got hit recently. We felt it too Michael so I understand where you're coming from. It's tough luck mate but like Ben said you should just drag it out over and many months as ya can. Thanks for the larf.
Angie
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:25 PMU auta be happy about only one offense in 15 years. How long have you been driving?
Hacker
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:28 PM...in response to this comment by Mikey. I used to drive all the time with one hand but that was when I had a cigarette in the other.
(and - yes, I am politically correct now and have given up smoking)
Cron
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:29 PMNice one Mike! Don't listen to the comments left by some of the miserable wankers. They totally missed the point.
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:33 PM
...in response to this comment by Hacker. People drive one handed all the time when they smoke or while they play with the controls on the car stereo and I've never heard of someone getting fined for that.
Damned straight
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:37 PMFor a second I thought you were whining about having to pay the fine. Thanks for not being 'that guy'. But you fucked up mate and you admit it and you need to deal with it.
Some people here have missed the real topic here and that's too bad for them. We all know how this sort of thing 'works' and how uncaring the system is but it's nice to be reminded in a humours fashion.
Andrea L
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:40 PM...in response to this comment by Jim. Hi Jim. I had the exact same problem with a personal loan about 20 years ago. I was young and stupid and didn't notice the fine print which stated I was not allowed to pay off the loan before the end of the term.
Amanda
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 05:50 PMIn Mike's defence for the ones who didn't get it the subject is bureaucracy not whinging. From what i read he isn't disputing paying the fine hes disputing the process. More power 2 ya.
Frodo Muggins
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 06:06 PMWe can take 2 lessons from this
1 - don't talk on phone and drive
2 - government agencies dont give a toss if your rich or poor. same rules apply for everyone
Bad luck dude but time to suck it up
Mopey
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 06:48 PM...in response to this comment by Mikey. Well sell your luxurious N95 phone then so you can pay the fine.
Doesn't sound like you're very hard done by to me, just a whinging bastard. I'm glad you got fined, and I salute the WA Police for not letting somebody like you get their own way.
...in response to this comment by Mopey. Sigh...you can sum up my financial status because I was using a 'luxurious' phone? A phone you don't even know if it's mine or if it's a phone provided by my employer? Wow what other amazing judgement calls have you made in your life? I shudder at the thought.
I think you should actually read carefully Mopey. As some of the readers here have figured out already, I'm not saying I don't want to pay the fine, I'm highlighting the idiocracy of the way it's handled. If you can't agree the process is convoluted and unnecessary, then defend the system. Don't just come here and make up bullsh*t about stuff you don't know about.
I'm complaining about the system not disputing the fine.
Great story
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 07:10 PM...that highlights a genuine problem
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 07:14 PM
Hi Michael things have changed here! Tough luck about the fine. I'm sure you'll work it out.
Hacker
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 07:14 PM...in response to this comment by Mopey. You really don`t get it do you Moped?
It`s not about paying the fine, it`s about the pure bullshit you have to go through to pay the fine.
Evan P
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 07:23 PM...in response to this comment by Hacker. It's not Mopey's fault he was an abused child. To much blunt trauma to the head.
Rodney
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 08:02 PMMike - how do we put together a paypal based whip-around to help you pay the fine? I'd put in.
Hell you could even run a profit! :-)
...in response to this comment by Rodney. Ha thanks but it will be fine. I will pay it but just through their convoluted process. Thinking about it more going on a couple of suggestions here I reckon this actually works in my favour a little. I will be paying more in the end but we won't feel it so bad each month.
Gemma
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 08:11 PM...in response to this comment by Gong. Ditto
Nate >.>
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 08:23 PMThat is just crazy man, sorry to hear about that.
I like the idea of making them wait 33 months for their fine money.
Heh heh heh :-p
Geraldine
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 08:32 PMYou should write a letter to someone up in the food chain for what ever good it will do. I'm glad you weren't trying to weasel your way our of a fine because you would have lost my respect.
Gina Squitieri
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 09:23 PM...in response to this comment by Mikey. Hi Michael,
That's maddening. I'm with Rodney--I'd contribute.
I have actually gotten fined twice before by the government and have twice gotten my money back. You never know what a letter can do.
Gina Squitieri
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 09:31 PMOkay - I wrote that last comment, not Michael. I don't know why Michael's name is there............ it's early in the morning. I must be really, really tired or (so embarrassed). Sorry.
...in response to this comment by Gina Squitieri. Gina you must be tired. I fixed it up for you :-)
Gina Squitieri
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 09:55 PMThank you! (I hope things turn out really well for you in this regard, Michael.)
Kim OJ
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 10:37 PMIt might be useful to remember that "they" are actually us. The money goes toward the common fund, so there is no good sense in punishing them. That is obviously not an excuse for the convoluted process, quite the opposite in fact, if it were a business they would simply be loosing customers.
Debra
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 10:43 PMCan you imagine being the person on the other end of the conversation?? Thankfully, I have never had to take a job where I would have to sit and say this kind of crap to people all day long! Wonder what that does to a person by the end of the day?
I guess you could be glad you - Michael - did not have to listen to a dozen recordings and push that many numbers before you got to a live person??? Hopefully, you didn't?!
Jared
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 11:47 PMI feel for you Mike.
I had a fine once, which I went in to pay on the 29th day of the first notice. The lady behind the counter tells me it cant be paid now and to wait for the second notice which will incur another $10 on top of the original fine. I say ok my fault I'll wait for the second notice. Another month passes and no second notice. Of course i'm going about my day to day life not really thinking about this traffic infringement everyday so I forgot to call up about it. A couple of weeks later I get the 3rd notice in the mail which has jumped up by $48 (The reason for this is because it goes onto Fines Enforcement and is no longer being handled by the police) When I took it in and said "hey I never recieved a second notice, why do I now have to fork out another $48 bucks" all I got was "Im sorry sir, but you haven't paid so the fine has increased". The system blows, but hey, what can you do when its your own fault for breaking the law to start with.
I can't help but be reminded of my days as a supervisor in a call center for a health insurance company. Some of the conversations were just as maddening as this one.
...in response to this comment by Debra. Actually Debra I tried to get through to them for 3 days. The 1st attempt I was on hold for 35 minutes before I had to abandon it. The 2nd time was also around 35 minutes before getting cut off. The 3rd time was a charm even though I was on hold for 15 minutes.
Truth be told though I don't blame the woman on the phone ta all. She was just following the procedure she was trained to do and I'm sure she is aware of how maddening it is.
Pacman
Friday 16th May 2008 | 06:09 AM...in response to this comment by Mopey. Some people shouldn't be allowed on the internet. Mopey you're an idiot. You either aren't very well educated or just just skimmed through without reading it properly or both. The guys obviously doesn't have a problem with the cops he is just highlighting a flaw. He's not trying to get out of paying the fine.
Gina Squitieri
Friday 16th May 2008 | 12:22 PM...in response to this comment by Mikey. That's crazy! What if one of your arms was broken and it happened to be the one you use to dial a keypad? You couldn't have called for an ambulance, so would he have let you off the "hook" so to speak then? :D
What if you were having a stroke and you were experiencing paralysis on one side of your body, or having a heart attack, would they have fined you for only having one hand on the steering wheel, then?
Oh
MY
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!
The world's gone nuts.
Gina Squitieri
Friday 16th May 2008 | 12:29 PM...in response to this comment by Pacman. Michael,
I think you should fine Mopey for trespassing. Apparently, Mopey has no respect for signs that read: "NO PRE-PUBESCENT TURKEYS ALLOWED"
:D
(Sorry. Couldn't pass that one up. So, go ahead......... bring in the hit men.)
...in response to this comment by Gina Squitieri. Love your style Gina ;-P
Gina Squitieri
Friday 16th May 2008 | 01:38 PM...in response to this comment by Mikey. That also means that cops have to fine everyone who drives a stick shift or has to adjust their rear and side view mirrors, since apparently both hands must be on the steering wheel at all times or otherwise you're not driving?
What if you were holding a tourniquet around a gaping wound on your upper "thigh" that came about when a dog bit you because it was alarmed by your phone's ring tone-- "WHO LET THE DOGS OUT? WOOF, WOOFF WOOFF! WHO LET THE DOGS OUT? WOOFF! " (Oh my god I'm laughing hysterically)?
What if, Michael!!! Well, you might not get your money back -- (and, yes, I know you say that's not what this rant is about, but the fact of the matter is, if you only had to shell out $2 for the ticket, you wouldn't have bothered with this rant) -- but if you did write them asking them these things, you will definitely cause one of two things to happen: They will either pass around your letter of complaint and you will go down in history as the funny guy who fought City Hall and lost. Or, you will cause them to ponder the foolish excuse that the cop used to drain your pockets, and they will give you your money back.
~The end~
Gina Squitieri
Friday 16th May 2008 | 01:39 PM...in response to this comment by Mikey. We have so much in common, Michael! You like my style and .... so do I. :P
Wazza
Friday 16th May 2008 | 04:25 PM...in response to this comment by Mopey. Wow Mopey could you be any more of a dickhead?
andrew
Friday 16th May 2008 | 04:41 PMthe above chat with the traffic could have been script by the monty python team........ just the sheer stupidity of the situation when you want to pay but bureaucracy gets in the way....
Helen
Friday 16th May 2008 | 07:32 PMThanks for making my evening with your story! As frustrating as it must be I'm glad you expressed yourself in a humorous fashion when it could so easily have been just a rant.
It's such a nice blog you have here by the way.
Joe Marco
Saturday 17th May 2008 | 05:58 PMwow...just like America...traffic fines suck!
Laiste
Thursday 15th May 2008 | 01:59 PMLMAO oh my goodness! How insane is the world!