Why is religion not taken seriously?
Mikey 23 comments
I'm sorry if the title of the article might sound like a rhetorical question. I've known religious people, but I've never met a fundamentalist Christian or a creationist, but then - and I know I say this at risk of potentially alienating a couple of subscribers of this blog - I keep in the company of people with open minds.
The closest I've come to interacting with a fundamentalist Christian is coincidently through this blog. Some of you might remember a particular subscriber who continually argued his fundamentalist beliefs passionately, even though his logic was extremely flawed. He served as a text book example of the fundamentalist Christian mindset. No reasoning and certainly never entertaining for even a nano-second the notion that he might be wrong.
When your entire argument is based on 'disproving' known scientific facts with (that were scientifically disproved hundreds of years ago), people will not take you seriously.
If you're going to dismiss the life works of scientists who constantly reveal evidence to support evolution, and instead claim the words written by ancient tribesman as all the proof you need of God's existence, then people will not take you seriously.
If you openly state and , people will not take you seriously.
If you believe , people will not take you seriously (and you will get laughed at into oblivion ad nauseam).
If you deny your child who has a life threatening condition medical treatment because you think praying to God will cure her, people will not take you seriously (and you deserve a slap in the face and your parental rights stripped).
And finally, if you're going to believe unproven nonsense and then force the same opinion onto your own children, people will not take you seriously (and you're an ass-hat).
Bobby Henderson said it perfectly with his now famous flying spaghetti monster deity. If I was to openly state with conviction the universe was created by the flying spaghetti monster, you will laugh at me (and rightfully say I'm insane). Because the very notion besides being totally absurd, is not supported by any evidence.
So with that in mind, how is it that certain folks demand we respect their religion? At what time did respect and religion become synonymous with one another? Surely if anything has to be respected, it's the works of people who spend their lives in the pursuit of understanding how the universe works, and how we got here. You see, where I come from respect is earned, it is not inherited. Therefore, if you are a creationist, or fundamentalist Christian for that matter, I have no respect for your opinion on the subject of how we got here. Just as you would, for example, have no respect for the theory of the flying spaghetti monster.
My position on the God subject is no secret. I live my life by the assumption he/she doesn't exist, because when there is no evidence to support the God concept, it would be illogical to believe in it. That makes me an Atheist by default. When there is no evidence, it can not be. And when a belief foundation is established where there is no evidence, well that my dear people, is nothing more than opinion. Not fact.
That said, I have no problem with you if God is your thing. You just won't get me to come around to your way of 'thinking' until you can show me a single scrap of evidence. I won't hold my breath.
Jim
Wednesday 18th February 2009 | 10:15 PMI'll have to watch the banana when I get home, I'm intrigued. No sound at work, no sense watching any videos here...
Picking up on China Blue (who would've gotten kudos from me), do you think something is at work in the universe? Call it nature or God, but it seems something is in control. Newton's law on thermodynamics (I forget which, and I'm too lazy to hit that google bar up there) states an object at rest stays at rest until acted upon. There had to be something to put everything in motion. I certainly don't know what, or whom, that is, but it must be there somewhere. Then of course you have to ask where that came from. I certainly pissed off the priests as a kid :P
I look forward to the comments that will undoubtedly ensue this article.
John Robertson
Wednesday 18th February 2009 | 10:23 PMGood article. I'm the choir; so my response is typically approving.
I would like to point out that as a non-religionist, I too still experience awe and wonder. Like the previous poster; I do believe there are forces that work in the universe which we do not yet have a scientific explanation for. However, they are mysteries not explained to my satisfaction by mythologies and superstitions (ie: religion).
Let's not forget, mankind used to attributte most things in nature to the magical world. It is absurd to modern christians to believe that thunder is anything less than a natural occurrance, but in times past it was considered the wrath of gods/god by most .
Anything science has not yet unraveled is natural non-the-less. If it occurres, it is an act of nature and doing what it must do naturally. I do not call anything supernatural.
Mysterious? Yes. Awe inspiring? Sometimes. Perhaps, at times, even spooky. However, it's only a matter of time before science discovers the blueprint of everything uder the sun.
Altoid
Thursday 19th February 2009 | 12:23 AMWell put. I almost envy your lack of fundamentalist contact, I live in the heart of the Bible Belt, so illogical beliefs are a daily annoyance for me. And obviously there are aspects of the universe we will never fully comprehend. That's the point of science, the more you discover, the more questions you have, leading to more discoveries, and more questions, and so on. There may indeed be a divine creator, it isn't very likely, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. But, any celestial deity that may or may not have created us/everything/etc, certainly isn't any of the ones promoted in Bronze Age fantasy that many take as absolute truth. It is clearly illogical and backwards to base your main life philosophies on ancient texts that are neither valid or helpful. Being an Atheist simply means you can't accept a theistic belief because it's either ridiculous, stupid, or both. In this respect, every individual on earth is an Atheist regarding any god they choose not to believe in. And there are a lot to choose from, excluding the major gods of today, look at those of the past. We now classify them as myths; Zeus, Thor, Horus, etc, etc, the number of gods in the mass grave of mythology is almost uncountable. Hopefully the gods of today will decompose in that very same grave along with all the other aging omnipotent dictators of old.
I don't know how constructive that rant was, considering I'm probably preaching to a secular choir, but oh well...
However, I do disagree with the sentiment that science will discover EVERYTHING, only in a matter of time. While the rate of technological advances and scientific discovery is continually increasing, with each discovery comes new questions. Science will surely lead to the understanding of much of our natural world, but can it possibly lead to the comprehension of the infinite amount of information yet to be discovered? Stuff that boggles the mind today will seem everyday in hundreds of years. Compare today to the Renaissance, or any other previous time period. How would someone from the relatively distant past react to a cell phone? Or elevators? Or social networking? Or cars? The list could go on forever. But although we have, through science, made these almost magical items an everyday acceptance, that doesn't mean we have fewer questions, or fewer discoveries to be made. Quite the contrary. With knowledge comes questions, with questions come answers, and with answers comes either doubt or acceptance.
Marvin the Martian
Thursday 19th February 2009 | 06:39 AMI've seen the banana video many times over the past couple of years and I still get a kick out of it. The guy seems to really believe that god created a banana just for human hands.
We are by nature pattern seekers. In the absence of any patterns, some people make sh*t up.
It's nice to have an imagination, but the guy who created the god fantasy must really be due a lot of royalties by now.
Bob
Thursday 19th February 2009 | 10:14 AMWhy is religion not taken seriously?
Well the majority of people on this planet do.
It's only the minority who do not.
That's not to say that I believe there is a one and only God.
I have no proof to believe or disbelieve but then again do I really need proof to believe in the existence of something material or spiritual if I have personally not seen it? Yes? No? What a dilemma!
I guess it's up to the individual to make his or her own mind up on what he or she believes. It's not up to me to make you believe and it's not up to you to make me believe one way or the other.
Think and say what you want! That's the beauty of free speech and unconstrained thinking - the power to create your own beliefs; right or wrong; real or unreal - the right to live and think your life the way you need and want it to be. Yes praise the Lord or praise yourself - whatever makes you happy. AMEN!
Wendy W
Thursday 19th February 2009 | 08:36 PMAs usual love your work...!
Jim
Thursday 19th February 2009 | 08:48 PM...in response to this comment by Marvin the Martian. You're absolutely right, men do look for patterns, and sometimes it leads to wrong theories. Take the medieval way of "creating maggots." It went something like "put meat out in the sun, and maggots will magically appear." Hell, it worked every time, so that must be it. Well they didn't realize maggots were baby flies, they look nothing alike. Now it's common knowledge that many insects go through a metamorphosis and completely change form.
1Bob
Friday 20th February 2009 | 07:09 AMIf you abuse your position in the church diddling little boys then people will not take you seriously.
die religion die.
...in response to this comment by Bob. I would suppose you'd agree there is a growing notion of a religious state among many fundamentalist. That is itself a threat to free speech and liberty, when elected officials run on religious platforms for eligibility.
There is certainly no use in forcing an adult to change their views on religion, however. Take into account the many families who subscribe their children to such ridiculous ideas and you'll have a problem.
On this subject, without those who question, progress would be at a standstill. After all, it was religious fanatics and holy crusades which exposed and spread theologies around the world. In other words, people imposing their beliefs in others.
For Atheists, I think it's our time to do unto them as they did unto us.
...in response to this comment by mario0318. Correction,
*To Atheists, I think it's our time to do unto them as they did unto us.
Jim
Friday 20th February 2009 | 07:27 PM...in response to this comment by 1Bob. I don't think religion should necessarily die. The most positive thing about it is the "high" some people get from it. I'd hazard to say it's more of a drug. Depending on how much you abuse it the more trouble you get into. Maybe it needs to be regulated and taxed, same with dope.
Jake Farr-Wharton
Friday 20th February 2009 | 08:04 PM...in response to this comment by mario0318. Mario, by that, I assume you mean that we should make them feel superior with every word we speak??
Haddy
Saturday 21st February 2009 | 06:54 AMYou should get a laugh out of this: 'Why do people laugh at creationists?'
Jim
Saturday 21st February 2009 | 10:22 AMA related article I found is here http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/02/does-religion-m.html
From the article: "We originally started the research to work out why some European countries had more generous unemployment benefits than others, but our analysis suggested that religious people suffered less psychological harm from unemployment than the non-religious, noted Professor Clark. "They had higher levels of life satisfaction".
If nothing else, an interesting read.
...in response to this comment by Jake Farr-Wharton. I was just implying we use their own tactics against them.
Haddy
Monday 23rd February 2009 | 07:56 PMSmokin' article and 100% true Mikey.
Iftikhar Ahmad
Thursday 26th February 2009 | 03:11 AMThe demand for Muslim schools comes from parents who want their children a safe environment with an Islamic ethos.Parents see Muslim schools where children can develop their Islamic Identity where they won't feel stigmatised for being Muslims and they can feel confident about their faith.
Muslim schools are working to try to create a bridge between communities.
There is a belief among ethnic minority parens that the British schooling
does not adequatly address their cultural needs. Failing to meet this need could result in feeling resentment among a group who already feel excluded. Setting up Muslim school is a defensive response.
State schools with monolingual teachers are not capable to teach English to bilingual Muslim children. Bilingual teachers are needed to teach English to such children along with their mother tongue. According to a number of studies, a child will not learn a second language if his first language is ignored.
Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual
Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. Muslims
have the right to educate their children in an environment that suits their
culture. This notion of "integration", actually means "assimilation", by
which people generally really mean "be more like me". That is not
multiculturalism. In Sydney, Muslims were refused to build a Muslim school,
because of a protest by the residents. Yet a year later, permission was
given for the building of a Catholic school and no protests from the
residents. This clrearly shows the blatant hypocrisy, double standards and racism. Christians oppose Muslim schools in western countries yet build
their own religious schools.
British schooling and the British society is the home of institutional
racism. The result is that Muslim children are unable to develop
self-confidence and self-esteem, therefore, majority of them leave schools with low grades. Racism is deeply rooted in British society. Every native child is born with a gene or virus of racism, therefore, no law could change the attitudes of racism towards those who are different. It is not only the common man, even member of the royal family is involved in racism. The
father of a Pakistani office cadet who was called a "Paki" by Prince Harry
has profoundly condemned his actions. He had felt proud when he met the
Queen and the Prince of Wales at his son's passing out parade at Sandhurst
in 2006 but now felt upset after learning about the Prince's comments. Queen Victoria invited an Imam from India to teach her Urdu language. He was highly respected by the Queen but other members of the royal family had no respect for him. He was forced to go back to India. His protrait is still in
one of the royal places.
There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools with bilingual Muslim teachers. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.
Iftikhar Ahmad
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Gina
Tuesday 29th March 2011 | 12:35 PMIt's interesting to note that the origin of the word "religion" is as follows:
"Origin:
11501200; Middle English religioun (< Old French religion ) < Latin religiōn- (stem of religiō ) conscientiousness, piety, equivalent to relig ( āre ) to tie, fasten ( re- re- + ligāre to bind, tie; compare ligament) + -iōn- -ion; compare rely" (source: dictionary.com)
Did you notice the "TO BIND" part? Interesting how "religion" at its very root means to BIND; and yet, Jesus said, If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. John 8:36
Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. [That is, slavery to religion; that's my best guess.]
Henk V
Tuesday 29th March 2011 | 01:18 PMI suppose organisation falls a similar non comparison from bible online..
Henk V
Wednesday 30th March 2011 | 08:55 PMmindlessly quoting Bible online without understanding and stating context is the VERY reason why christians aren't taken seriously.
But then form with other matters renders the quoter as not to be taken very seriously as well.
Belief be damned!
China Blue
Wednesday 18th February 2009 | 10:02 PMAs a lifelong agnostic (my parents are Adventist) this sentence really resonated with me: "You just won't get me to come around to your way of 'thinking' until you can show me a single scrap of evidence."
I was dragged to church in my mid-teens, and wondered why I wasn't 'getting it'. It wasn't my age, because I'd always felt that way. It wasn't a 'sulky teenager' thing, or anything else. I simply didn't believe; never have, probably never will. I keep an open mind, but in a family of Christians, it's hard to come out and say I don't think it makes sense... actually, maybe not, since I'm the family 'weirdo'!
We know that the Earth is not held up by a giant tortoise and 4 elephants, so how is it more plausible that it was created in 7 days? That man was made from clay? Evolution is still happening - I remember reading about a community in Africa somewhere that had developed extra immunity to HIV/Aids.
That said, I've had certain experiences - the most recent being a few months ago - which make me think there are forces at work about which we have no knowledge, as the Queen famously put it.
Whether people think being agnostic is simply fence-sitting or not, I feel much more at ease admitting I don't really believe in God, but that I think something outside of us is at work. I just don't think it created the world in a week!
Anyway, thanks for provoking some thoughts - and this post will prove provoking indeed...!